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jimBOB

If I could suggest a slightly different interpretation, I think it comes from a disagreement over where the badness of an act lies. Take premarital sex. The reality-based community (RBC) objection to rampant teen sex comes from the idea that such behavior can have bad concrete consequences (diseases, premature parenthood, exploitation of naive and unformed personalities etc.). Yet knowing the hormonally charged nature of adolescence, the RBC recognizes that 100% teen celebacy is an unlikely goal. So in that case, mitigating the bad consequences is through condom use is a reasonable backup.

To the faith-based community (FBC), the source of the problem is different. Premarital sex isn't bad because it leads to bad consequences. It's just bad because it's, well, BAD. (If you doubt this see the somewhat comical campaigns also waged against masturbation, a widespread sexual behavior with none of the above bad consequences.) In this formulation, anything that might lead to widespread acceptance of non-marital sexuality (education, contraception etc.) is an enemy - especially if it's something that mitigates the external bad consequences of the behavior. Since the main idea is to stamp out non-marital sexuality for its own sake, bad consequences are just an incidental tool to help with the main task, not the basic motivating factor as they are to the RBC.

This is a bit different from your idea of it all being a question of getting your beliefs into the right shape. There is a logic to the RBC position, but it comes from taking the badness of the subject matter as a premise rather than a consequence. It also means there's almost no common ground to be had between RBC and FBC, as their disagreement flows from radically conflicting worldviews.

jack

That's a good thought. Making the consequences more severe certainly helps to reinforce the inherent "badness" of the act. But to deliberately make people suffer needlessly while still claiming to be moral requires explanation.

Also interesting is your comment about anti-masterbation efforts. It's only where the faith-based values coincide with something in reality -- like the very real consequences of early sexuality -- that the faith-based view gets any traction. The masterbation issue, while just as heartfelt, appears comical.

jimBOB

At a certain point, extremist faith-based morality becomes pathological. Putting unbelievers and heretics to the sword was part of the history of Christianity. These days bombing of infidels gets done in the name of various religions. There's probably no more potent engine for creating suffering than fanatical fundamentalism.

I haven't read too many posts on your blog (though I'll be doing so in the next few days) so I'm not sure if you've ever tackled the question of how one might base a secular moral system. It's a knotty question I've often pondered. Your request for an explanation of that makes people suffer assumes that an aspiration to the alleviation of suffering is an inherent feature of moral systems. It would doubtless show up in most secular moral thinking, but the faith-based, suffering in the here-and-now may be outweighed by suffering one might believe would follow in an afterlife. Thus an unyielding opposition to anything that might encourage non-marital sex would be justified if it kept even a few from an eternity of suffering in Hell.

WRT getting political traction with moralistic arguments, you're right that appeals to faith without reference to anything concrete probably won't get too far. Personally, I think fundamentalism per se is less of an issue here in the U.S. than is fundamentalism being used as a political tool by ruthless plutocrats. Of course, sometimes it turns around and bites them (see Arlen Specter.)

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